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Talk:Muppets Breaking the Fourth Wall
Fourth wall? Do we have anything addressing the fourth wall? Watching Being Elmo tonight, I saw Kevin Clash addressing his awe as a youth with Ernie and Bert breaking the fourth mall and talking to the viewer in any early episode (oddly, we don't have it), and then the latest Sesame Bits comic has Telly questioning who Elmo's talking to. -- Zanimum 00:59, April 11, 2012 (UTC) :Actually, we do have that sketch listed. -- Jon (talk) 01:09, April 11, 2012 (UTC) :: Season 3? Wow, I stopped looking before that. -- Zanimum 16:59, April 12, 2012 (UTC) Cleanup An anonymous user started this page, and I tried to clean it up a little, but I'm unsure about some things. This has the potential to be interesting, but as has been discussed often, the Muppet characters have broken the fourth wall or addressed the audience on a regular basis, and some of the examples, like Secrets of the Muppets, seem problematic since it combines behind the scenes elements with the characters and their performers, so I'm not sure about whether that's breaking the fourth wall or something else entirely. Really, there's very few Muppet Show Muppet related productions that didn't involve some layer of fourth wall breaking. Andrew Leal (talk) 20:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC) :I agree, re: problematic. Pretty much any episode of The Muppet Show doesn't count. Kermit and company know that they're putting a show on which will be broadcast all over the world. So, on occassion, they use this to their advantage. I was going to say that the Señor Wences might qualify for this list, but the more I think about it, the very foundation of the Muppets is based on creating and then breaking certain illusions. To start citing any time that the Muppets become self-referential would be a tiresome task. Which, I suppose, if someone wanted to do it, all the power to them. But I think such an endeavor kinda misses the point of what the Muppets are all about. And there is a personal point of view for you. -- Scott Hanson (talk) 20:58, 15 May 2006 (UTC) ::Yeah. The user listed only one example of The Muppet Movie, but the whole film is about a movie about making a movie, with walls all mingled and stuff. It would actually be easier to list Muppet productions that *don't* break the fourth wall, and even when they don't internally, like The Muppets Take Manhattan, elements seep over into the "real world" Muppet publicity (Miss Piggy's citing the fact that a real minister performed the wedding as proof that she and Kermit are wed). Even Dog City, where no walls are broken between the Muppets and the viewer except that the whole concept was built around the intermingling of the animated illusions and the "real" Muppets, but with the cartoons often taking on a life of their own. Really, since you mention it, a "Behind the Scenes" essay discussing the role of the fourth wall in general, while perhaps redundant for us fans, would probably be more useful and interesting overall. Andrew Leal (talk) 21:01, 15 May 2006 (UTC) :::Muppets Breaking the Fourth Wall has the same problems as Muppet Chronology. These characters weren't created with a specific universe and Character Bible in mind like other franchises. When I see fans attempting to make sense of either of these, I feel that the point is being lost. The Muppets are a set of characters that exist in our world, and at the same time, not. They're interchangable and subject for any number of uses at the writer's whim. This extends into alternate identies, which admittedly we do divulge into here on the wiki just because it's fun. But, when it comes down to it, The Scarecrow is a character that Kermit takes on, but when all is said and done, he's still Kermit. He doesn't do anything too uncharacteristically Kermit. :::But, I digress. We could get into plenty of POV area with this discussion, but the point is that a Fourth Wall list is somewhat redundant given the structure for the characters and their history. -- Scott Hanson (talk) 21:10, 15 May 2006 (UTC) ::::So, we're in agreement that this page should probably be nuked? (Though it does occur to me that the talk page might be worth saving somewhere should this come up again, as well it might). Andrew Leal (talk) 21:11, 15 May 2006 (UTC) :::::This looks like Shane to me. I say nuke it. -- Danny (talk) 21:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)